i think a lot of what you're hearing, including from john boehner, is this posturing you have to do to make sure you can still raise money, obviously, as we were just saying. but at the same time, you've got to believe that he understands deep down, those rates are going up one way or another. if they can't come to an agreement, all the rates will go up. i still think that's what boehner would prefer. >> when we had the lame duck bush tax cut extension, which frustrated a lot of people, myself included, a lot of people on this network, okay? afterwards, if you would talk to someone from the white house, they would say, no, no, no. we've got this. we've got it all set up now, because it's going to all expire at the same me and we're goingth e all the leverage because they're going to expire. we're going to have the leverage. i was skeptical of that. but i think it is true from a negotiating standpoint, they really do have the leverage. you have people saying, oh, walk away. don't even talk to them. we shouldn't even -- that's fine. go ahead. don't talk to them. all the rates go up. >> y